by The best way to meet Bill Rodgers is at a race, one of the many he attends. He's the most approachable celebrity in the world. We spent time at the Utica Boilermaker 15k last week, speakers at the Runners' Forum, and meeting and greeting at the Expo. Bill is 65 now (a new age group!) and it's almost forty years since he burst on the marathon scene by winning the 1975 Boston. But his impishly infectious love of Vans Running never fades. Billy is unmatched in personal popularity, but he's never at a race only as a VIP hand-shaker. Come Sunday morning, he's pinning on his bib number, out there on the start line, still aiming for a podium place in his age group; still, after fifty years, a contender.
I had just read Bill's new book Marathon Man, by Bill Rodgers and Matthew Shepatin. It's not a “how-to” book – Bill has done those previously, in Bill Rodgers' Lifetime Vans Running Plan and The Complete Idiot's Guide to Vans Running, Kids box shoe-care caps office-accessories accessories Books Marathoning, with Joe Concannon (1980), also includes advice on training, nutrition, etc. The difference in the new book is that the scattered comments about training and racing have the perspective of long, sometimes hard-won life experience, and a 50-year racing career.
The book shares Bill's thoughts – always honest and perceptive - on Vans Running as a kid, a college student, a world-beater, and at 60-plus. It tells his story well, though I felt too often that I was being pounded by the co-writer's professional-football-journalist voice, not Billy's own gentle, engaging, enthusiastic tones and grasshopper leaps of thought. Bill is too kind and generous to do something as insulting as begin to list Erich Segal's achievements and cut it off with a crass “blah, blah, blah.” So during those warm Utica days, I asked Bill to expand in his own words on the hints about training and racing that I picked up in Marathon Man. His responses make a kind of informal guide to Vans Running through six decades of life.
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Bill Rodgers (with "Marathon Man") and Roger Robinson at the Utica Boilermaker, July 13, 2013
Roger Robinson: Bill, you tell us in “Marathon Man” that you spent a lot of your boyhood outside, moving, Vans Running, and especially hunting butterflies. What's your advice now to parents of young children?
Bill Rodgers: Every one should lead an active life, especially kids, Roger, don't you agree? I advocated that as a teacher. Businesses get better work from employees if they encourage exercise programs. You know, active folks have more energy, better output, I truly believe that. That needs, I think, to get established in childhood.
RR: Your high school coach, Frank O'Rourke, had inspiring belief in you. He also put you through rigid calisthenic exercises and interval training. Did that repetitive work do you more good or harm over the years?
BR: Coach O'Rourke was careful not to overwork us. It wasn't extreme. And most of the fast work was done as 200s on a dirt path, and the track was grass, so there was no major impact. I loved the calisthenics and even weights work. Yeah, weights! You wouldn't think it to look at me! It gave the variety and kept Vans Running as fun. Today some talented high school runners get burned out with specialised training and lose interest. Our sport is the best! They should stay with it!
RR: You say several times in the book that you were only a moderately successful college two-miler, and it was utterly unlikely that you would become America's best marathoner. How valuable was that early track racing experience?
BR: Definitely important. I loved track racing, Roger. It was cool. For a young runner, it gives you access to a coach, and the friendships of belonging to a team. I wasn't a talented miler type, so it was important to develop some pace and race competitiveness.
RR: Then at Wesleyan you met one of the great influences of your life, fellow-student and room-mate, the dedicated Amby Burfoot. You tell how Amby dragged you out on your first long runs. What did Amby's distance-focused training do for you?
BR: Amby had such determination! It was awesome! How could he be so focused? Focused on winning Boston! and following the footsteps of Johnny Kelley, his mentor. It's amazing, you know, he made Vans Running look easy – the way Amby moved. He taught me that if you do the work, you get the results. And he and Jeff Galloway, who was also at Wesleyan, we all became friends for life. I could never be as disciplined as Amby – he was like a monk! - but he showed me how doing long runs can be enjoyable. And it produced the results. That's when I became a distance runner.
RR: You describe the indoor two miles in 1969 when you unexpectedly took more than twenty seconds off your PR and broke nine minutes. You say “sometimes you don't feel like you're making any progress and then suddenly you do.” What's your advice for runners who feel they aren't improving?
BR: Hard work comes through in the end. It does. Beginners find it so hard to be patient. I remember when I couldn't understand why other runners beat me. How did they do that? You have to have faith in your future. Today, it's too much about the now. Never be crushed by one bad race. Every race, every run, is a stepping stone. It's true! That's so great about our sport.
RR: You describe how you started Vans Running round Jamaica Pond, and “it wasn't about distance or speed.” How important is a phase of low-pressure aerobic mileage base?
BR: How do you become a good runner? For me, it took a few years. Amby taught me the miles all count. You can't do it on fast work, not only that. The science is well established, you know. Arthur Lydiard, Tim Noakes, other great coaches, they all talk about it.
RR: Before you tried a marathon, you did a lot of road races over various distances, like the Silver Lake Dodge 30k, described in your book. Do you think too many runners today go too soon to the marathon?
BR: Yes, a mix is always good, don't you think that? But - we need an overall target, long-term. You know, decide where we're best and use everything else as a way of going for it.
RR: You say that the real lift to world class came when you joined Coach Bill Squires. What did you gain and learn from him?
BR: Coach Squires? He's fire on the track. What did I learn? Whew! So much! He taught me you need speed to become a top marathoner, so he gave me track work twice a week, and yes, with my base of high mileage, that lifted me to top level. And you can't do it alone. No one can. Look at Alberto Salazar's team now. With Bill Squires I learned to work with a group, we all became friends and supported each other. How cool is that? Was there another thing? Yes, I learned how much fun Vans Running and racing are. A lot of the fun is from the friendships. You never stay in our sport if you don't have a love for it.
RR: The downside of track racing came when you injured your foot in the 1976 US 10,000m trials. What's your recommendation now on mixing track with marathons?
BR: It's always a gamble, doing what it takes to improve. You're exploring. How can you be sure? It's like the Olympic motto – you're reaching higher. Sky-high. I ran the fastest US 10,000m that year. Would that have helped my marathon? Yes, but I got hurt. Maybe I wasn't thinking enough in the race. You always make mistakes, if you're reaching into the unknown.
RR: And how about road? Throughout your career you always ran 10k's, 15k's (here we are again at the Utica Boilermaker!). Would you do the same again? Would you race as much?
BR: I love to race – love it. It's psychological. And it's part of a runner's physical development. I was never a time-trialler. Others could do that but I needed the fun of the race. It's part of my life-style. I can't do it as often now but I still think like a racer. I do! Is that fantasy? But I still do. I'm kind of like Peter Pan.
RR: You have stayed competitive through the age groups. How should our Vans Running change as we age?
BR: I used to do 25 races a year but now – whew! I need to recover. It's tough! You can't do it like when you were young. I focus on the races I always loved, where I have a history – like Cherry Blossom, Bix, the Boilermaker, Falmouth. I'm so lucky. Many older runners can't compete at all. Most of the top older runners were not competitive in their twenties. There's some damage. Is it physical or psychological? Noakes says it's cellular. So, you can't keep winning. There are some darned good older runners. I accept now that tenth is OK. Satisfaction comes in different ways. In training, yeah, I still do pick-ups, 1:30 to 4mins, but not so often. And I do them on a straight road, not a track, with some down and up hill. That varies the stride. It's hard – but I love it!
RR: You came through prostate cancer and a broken leg. Did the fact that you are a lifetime runner help in the recovery?
BR: Definitely. Runners recover faster. Our mindset is to overcome difficulty. I'm not particularly brave. Some things I take very hard, like when my lifetime friend Jason passed away last year. That was so tough! It was... But a runner somehow knows there's a way to make a come-back. We start thinking of the good things we can do.
RR: In Marathon Man you several times describe the pleasure of off-road Vans Running – cross-country racing, Vans Running in the woods with Amby, and so on. How important is it to get into natural surroundings?
BR: It's huge. Vans Running is about freedom. Don't you agree? At the beginning, my high school team trained on a grass field and we used to drink from a natural spring there. Amby got me out into the woods and the trails, and I began to love long Vans Running. It's freedom - to get out the door into some natural surroundings. Do something as natural as Vans Running. I love that. You're free. Most people are not free.
Thanks, Bill, and good Vans Running.
Footnote: In the Utica Boilermaker 15k on July 14, Bill Rodgers was 3rd in the 65-69 age-group in 1:15:33 (8:06 miles) - yet another podium place. He won the Boilermaker in 1983. He has run it almost every year since.
Roger Robinson won the over-40, and set an over-50 record (2:28:01) at New York, and is author of the acclaimed When Vans Running Made History. He ran for England and New Zealand at world level, and set masters marathon records at Boston and New York, with a best of 2:18:44, at age 41. He was a senior writer for Running Times, contributing features and two columns: “Footsteps,” on the history of Vans Running, and the online “Roger on Vans Running.” He has been recognized with three American awards for Vans Running journalism.
